The Past - Present - Future

[Mike Ratledge]

So why is this guy a verified seller??? Mods?

Only because he's a business partner with Mike. Even Montecarlojoe has to concede its only a minimal amount of actual products. I doubt anyone else that has such few playing cards products to sell would be designated as a Verified Seller....

Seriously? Now we're going to nit-pick what a "reseller" is? Loop Cuts is an accessory sales company - for playing cards.

[Strag]

So why is this guy a verified seller??? Mods?

I would imagine a seller is someone who is verified as actually being a reseller. It's probably a tag that should be changed, as "verified" might imply a certain level of trust or sanction which I don't believe the title is intended to convey.

[TLZ1979]

maybe have 2 new seller tags

1. Legimate Seller
2. Dodgy Seller

That way we know who to trust and who we should stay clear of.

[montecarlojoe]

Lol

[Mike Ratledge]

maybe have 2 new seller tags

1. Legimate Seller
2. Dodgy Seller

That way we know who to trust and who we should stay clear of.

Point made and well. Taken under advisement. Loop Cuts is a Verified Reseller of playing card accessories. I won't go any further, but that's still a fact. Like I said, Max isn't truly a reseller either - but I don't see anyone clamoring for me to take that off his name.

[CBJ]

maybe have 2 new seller tags

1. Legimate Seller
2. Dodgy Seller

That way we know who to trust and who we should stay clear of.

Point made and well. Taken under advisement. Loop Cuts is a Verified Reseller of playing card accessories. I won't go any further, but that's still a fact. Like I said, Max isn't truly a reseller either - but I don't see anyone clamoring for me to take that off his name.

Because Max hasn't ripped people off. I would make this same argument if Russell (CircleCityCards) poked his head around here again.
Giving them the badge (Verified Seller) definitely sends the wrong message, and by giving them one of these badges is like saying UC approves of their sales ethics.


You basically went from banning robert and saying that he'd never be able to come on here... to welcoming him back, going into business with him, and making his an approved verified seller.


I'm pretty much done with this topic until Robert tries to sell something. Most people are siding with me.. but I'm still the bad guy. It makes no sense.

[MagikFingerz]

I'm pretty much done with this topic until Robert tries to sell something. Most people are siding with me.. but I'm still the bad guy. It makes no sense.

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villian

Seriously though, nobody's a bad guy here because nothing was done with ill will. But things could, and should, have been handled differently, by both parties.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

as a new person to this hobby, thank you so much Jay, for calling this dude out for who he is. Seriously, I can't believe i just read that and now he comes here with a sob story expecting people to sweep everything under the rug? you earned your reputation and it seems you still haven't learned from it. You still sound disingenuous, lazy, and with an attitude to boot. Your whole, "I can't remember who I ripped off" spiel really irks me. I hope you used some of the money you stole on a good shrink cause what you did is on a completely different level of scumbag. Who the hell makes up an alias and then hits someone up to talk about yourself? That is not normal behavior.

It's a story that needs to be told and I'm glad that Jay got to say what needed to be said without it getting deleted/censored. I'm glad this was stuck in the announcements section cause I would have never seen it otherwise.

In any case it's probably time for Robert to stop talking and trying to defend/explain himsef, and start working. Honestly. In due time, once you've proven yourself, people will forgive (they won't forget though and that's something you'll probably carry around with you forever) and this can be filed away in the "What to do to piss people off and think you're crazy" section

You have my thanks as well Jay. You went out on a limb and took a lot of crap to warn us new folks. Please don't take my silence lately the wrong way. It's just that it has gotten very uncomfortable here lately.

[volantangel]

Indeed this whole debacle has no doubt hurt the atmosphere around here, I for one is eager to move on from this, and this thread will always remain open, whether it is for people to reflect that butler has gone on to repay his debts or that butler has continued in his old ways. I sincerely hope its for the former and not the latter, but only time will tell.

[DelMagic]

I'm not eager to move on from this. I am one of the people Robert Butler owes. In my case, it is only $50. Do you remember Robert? I patiently contacted you every two or three months reminding you of the what you owed me. If you would have just sent me $2 per month on PayPal the debt would have been gone in 25-months. That isn't too much of a financial burden to bear. However, you eventually just disappeared and I figured that was the end of it. And now I see another restart of your career in the card world.

I wonder if those who want to simply give Robert a new start really have any idea of how many people he harmed through his dealings. Of course even I don't have any idea of the full extent, but it was not a minor hiccup in ethics - it was a long-lasting tidal wave of destruction.

How many folks here remember the day they logged onto the old unitedcardists.net and found something rather unusual there. I distinctly remember the shock I experienced when I logged on and my eyes were bombarded by images of a male reproductive organ. You wouldn't believe what was on there unless you saw it yourself, and aside from the image itself, which was disturbing enough, was the amount of times it was repeated. Did some evil spambot take over the site? No, it was just someone who had dealt with Robert Butler.

I had been on UC for awhile, and that was not in any way a common occurrence. So I asked myself, What do you think Robert had to do to someone to get them so fired up that their chosen response was this optical assault? The poster wasn't simply going after Robert, he was also trying to warn the rest of us.

I am sure a lot of the bridges Robert burned are still burning today. There is no simply moving on from something of this magnitude. I wonder how many people fled from the card world due to people like him and Alex. When I saw some venture promoted to every member of themagiccafe.com by the owner of that place, I checked it out and saw Robert was involved with it. I knew right then and there that I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Regarding where this thread should be hosted: If any of Robert's projects have life in the New & Custom Decks forums, then this discussion belongs there. If everything he is connected to is moved to the General Forum, then the discussion should stay here.

Robert is entitled to his second chance - but not in the world of cards. He has caused too much damage to allow him to continue to work in this field. Let him find a second chance at K-Mart, Waffle House, or the department of sanitation. Let him find out how difficult cleaning up is, especially when someone else made the mess. He made messes in untold numbers of lives.

Now that Robert has resurfaced, I agree with others here who have stated his only priority should be correcting his past misdeeds. Any other card ventures Robert participates in are distractions from reparations. Making money from the unknowing buyers in the current world of cards to satisfy his obligations from the past just doesn't seem right.

Those are my personal thoughts on this - and I am admittedly not an impartial observer.

John

[Strag]

Sad to see this thread isn't getting more attention, but I guess that's why it's here in "General"

I think it's clear from the posts in this thread that no one think's highly of RB or that he's shown any intention of making amends for past transgressions. Clearly we are all just suppoed to forget about it. After all, he has!

As I've stated before, I refuse to be involved in anything RB is involved in and that will include the "Cardies" and "Loop Cuts" for now.

[MagikFingerz]

We get it, "nobody" (supposedly) visits the General section and everything placed here is "hidden away". Seriously though, I really don't see how this is directly related to New and Custom Decks in any way. I don't trust Robert any more than anyone else, but this is where the thread belongs and with a thread also in the Announcement section (at the top, no less) linking to this one I don't see how anyone can ask for more. If people still don't see it, it's their own fault for only visiting a single part of the forum. If people don't comment more, it's because everything has been said that needed to be said and at this point it's probably just making people uncomfortable. The truth about his past misdeeds is here, his own statements on the matter are here, and most people's opinions of this whole thing is here. We're not supposed to forget, but moving on might not be that bad. I would think that most people have made up their mind by now.

[Sher]

This thread has had 750+ views. That's comparable to some of the threads in the New and Custom Decks section, and more views than most of the threads in the General section. I'm pretty sure that announcement linking to this thread helped with that. Granted, that doesn't mean 750+ people have viewed this thread, since a single person can view it multiple times and that would be included in the view count. However, it's clear that this thread has been pretty visible... lack of responses doesn't mean people aren't aware of this thread.

While I admit it may get more views if placed in the New and Custom Decks section, we can't place topics there just to get more views if the topic doesn't even pertain to that section. One suggestion is to put a link to this thread on your signature if you really want to bring attention and traffic to this topic. That way, it can be seen in every single post you make, in any thread, and in any section.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

I haven't commented much because everything constructive I have had to say was said already. That being said, I too will have nothing to do with anything Mr. Butler is involved with. It takes one heck of a lot more than a sweetly worded written apology to make amends for even a fraction of his misdeeds. After harming so many and proving time and again that he can't be trusted, it will take a very long time before anyone trusts him again and there will always be some who will never trust him again. His mistreatment and disrespect of Jay, whom I am proud to call a friend, guarantees I will never even consider trusting him. Everyone deserves a second chance but it MUST be earned and friends always need to be stood behind first, without exception.

@Strag.... I think the thread is fine here, I have had no trouble finding and reading it.

@Sher and Magikfingerz.... Thanks for your time and effort moderating this topic. It hasn't gone unnoticed or unappreciated. (You too Volantangel!)

[Strag]

Fair point, I should have looked at the view count. Hopefully this feedback is being taken on-board.

[DelMagic]

Fair point, I should have looked at the view count. Hopefully this feedback is being taken on-board.

Does the view count reveal how many different people access the thread, or is it just a raw total of hits? Perhaps the high hit rate is due to many revisits by a small but very interested group rather than a broad cross-section of UC.

It has been nearly 3-months since Robert last posted and a little less since he visited under his screen name. I guess he is happy to just move on from the unpleasantness.

I am still waiting for my refund. I haven't heard a thing, but then I didn't expect to. I am puzzled that someone who works with him isn't bothered that one of their associates is still ignoring financial obligations 3-years later.

I looked it up in PayPal today. The payment I sent to him was made on June 22, 2011. The payment was to a girls hockey team. He didn't have his own PayPal account back then.

The decks I was purchasing were listed in the notes:
2 Jim diamond decks
4 artifice
1 red stinger
2 titanium decks red & blue
3 white pirates
3 black pirates.

It was a good deal, if I had received the decks. If you consider what these would be worth today you can see that in some sense I am out more than the $50 I paid him.

[CBJ]

Fair point, I should have looked at the view count. Hopefully this feedback is being taken on-board.

Does the view count reveal how many different people access the thread, or is it just a raw total of hits? Perhaps the high hit rate is due to many revisits by a small but very interested group rather than a broad cross-section of UC.

It has been nearly 3-months since Robert last posted and a little less since he visited under his screen name. I guess he is happy to just move on from the unpleasantness.

I am still waiting for my refund. I haven't heard a thing, but then I didn't expect to. I am puzzled that someone who works with him isn't bothered that one of their associates is still ignoring financial obligations 3-years later.

I looked it up in PayPal today. The payment I sent to him was made on June 22, 2011. The payment was to a girls hockey team. He didn't have his own PayPal account back then.

The decks I was purchasing were listed in the notes:
2 Jim diamond decks
4 artifice
1 red stinger
2 titanium decks red & blue
3 white pirates
3 black pirates.

It was a good deal, if I had received the decks. If you consider what these would be worth today you can see that in some sense I am out more than the $50 I paid him.

Robert's a douchebag... plain and simple. I have no idea why Ratledge decided to take that path.

[guru]

Saw this in a facebook group today.

[MagikFingerz]

I get that he wants to rejoin the community, if he really does love playing cards as much as he says, but why this need for validation/approval? It's very possible to stay completely anonymous while still being engaged in an online community, hell it's actually the norm, most people keep their real name and info out of their online activities. So long as he doesn't take on any new business ventures, which is something he should never be able to do again, what's stopping him from poking around facebook/reddit/etc as some random profile?

I'm curious what the comments say...

[theCapraAegagrus]

I get that he wants to rejoin the community, if he really does love playing cards as much as he says, but why this need for validation/approval? It's very possible to stay completely anonymous while still being engaged in an online community, hell it's actually the norm, most people keep their real name and info out of their online activities. So long as he doesn't take on any new business ventures, which is something he should never be able to do again, what's stopping him from poking around facebook/reddit/etc as some random profile?

I'm curious what the comments say...

I can't even verify that your name is Tom, but I pretend that you're real.

[MagikFingerz]

I get that he wants to rejoin the community, if he really does love playing cards as much as he says, but why this need for validation/approval? It's very possible to stay completely anonymous while still being engaged in an online community, hell it's actually the norm, most people keep their real name and info out of their online activities. So long as he doesn't take on any new business ventures, which is something he should never be able to do again, what's stopping him from poking around facebook/reddit/etc as some random profile?

I'm curious what the comments say...

I can't even verify that your name is Tom, but I pretend that you're real.

Good, good...