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Hi guys, hope you're all doing well today.

I'm hoping you can help me out here...

I have a cellophane sealed and signed Bicycle branded Federal 52 deck by Jackson Robinson. What could I realistically expect to sell it for? It's in perfect condition.

Thanks, any and all help is much appreciated.

Probably $100.

Is it one that has a numbered seal, or is it unnumbered without the seal that was part of the Kickstarter issue? I think those with the numbered seal are a bit more valuable. Although $100 is in the ballpark, probably a little less if unnumbered.

Replying to..... "Is it one that has a numbered seal, or is it unnumbered without the seal that was part of the Kickstarter issue? I think those with the numbered seal are a bit more valuable. Although $100 is in the ballpark, probably a little less if unnumbered."

It has a black seal but there are no numbers on it....

Rarity -which Fed52 Bicycle Branded is not uncommon and easily obtainable & Quality are what collectors are primarily looking for.

You'd be lucky if you got $50 for it as this deck has quite of damage among the corners.

If you're looking for premium dollars, mint condition is sadly the only way to obtain high value.

Federal 52 has green, unnumbered seals.

Regardless of the tuck's minor flaws, you should be able to squeeze at least $80 out of it. They go for $90 on eBay,

theCapraAegagrus wrote:They go for $90 on eBay,

Exactly! That's what people want for them, not what they sold for. Do a search of some that sold. This deck and many others from the 52 series sell for a lot less.. Just recently there was a block of 10 branded that auctioned for $286. Do the math, what that work out to be??

iCollectPlayingCards, your best bet is to list it auction style at 0.99 and see what it sells for. That's the only way you're going to get a true value of what someone is willing to pay.

No one can tell you what it's exact value is worth. theCapraAegagrus is only going by what he sees online. Unless there's a 2019 catalogue that lists every deck and it's value in today's market (as they do with comic books) then there's no way of really telling.

I'm sure if you listed your deck anywhere between $60-$80 below the already listed ones at $90-$100 your's would sell before others because according to theCapraAegagrus the tuck box doesn't matter -to him at least.

To collectors it does...

Good luck.

aznh wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote:They go for $90 on eBay,

Exactly! That's what people want for them, not what they sold for. Do a search of some that sold. This deck and many others from the 52 series sell for a lot less.. Just recently there was a block of 10 branded that auctioned for $286. Do the math, what that work out to be??

iCollectPlayingCards, your best bet is to list it auction style at 0.99 and see what it sells for. That's the only way you're going to get a true value of what someone is willing to pay.

No one can tell you what it's exact value is worth. theCapraAegagrus is only going by what he sees online. Unless there's a 2019 catalogue that lists every deck and it's value in today's market (as they do with comic books) then there's no way of really telling.

I'm sure if you listed your deck anywhere between $60-$80 below the already listed ones at $90-$100 your's would sell before others because according to theCapraAegagrus the tuck box doesn't matter -to him at least.

To collectors it does...

Good luck.

Wholesale always sells for better price/product. Easy economic trend there. Non-comparison.

3 recent sales: 1 auction over $100 and 2 $100 OBO. So this deck is worth about $100.

Knowledgeable collectors know that virtually every tuck box has "damage". The OP's deck is no different than most Federal 52 boxes.

aznh wrote:
Just recently there was a block of 10 branded that auctioned for $286.

That was me!

iCollectPlayingCards wrote: It's in perfect condition.

*looks at damaged tuck and laughs*.

I would never buy a deck with a corner as badly damaged as the upper left, not to mention with damage on two of the other corners.

New and undamaged this deck is worth $60/$70 bucks. Worth. Not what it's not-selling for on ebay, but what it is actually worth.

Not only is the tuck damaged, but the signature is in really bad shape as well. I wouldn't ask more than $40/$50 for this. And I might buy it for $15

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Knowledgeable collectors know that virtually every tuck box has "damage". The OP's deck is no different than most Federal 52 boxes.

Well this is bullshit. All of the Fed52 decks I have are not damaged like this. I always attempt to get damaged decks such as this replaced.

Justin O. wrote:Not only is the tuck damaged, but the signature is in really bad shape as well.

Considering the signature is on the cellophane, I don't think you can realistically expect it to be pristine.

MagikFingerz wrote:

Justin O. wrote: Not only is the tuck damaged, but the signature is in really bad shape as well.

Considering the signature is on the cellophane, I don't think you can realistically expect it to be pristine.

I have a lot of signed decks where the signature is.

Edit: I feel I need to clarify I am only talking about signed decks I have that have been signed on the cellophane. It seems obvious; but internet.

Agreed. Anytime I sell a deck with dents like that I list them as "Dent Sale" so buyers know exactly what they're getting. Three out of four are crinkled. Looks like it's been dropped a few times. Doesn't mean he can't get $80, but with other examples out there with no or less damage, it could be a while until the right buyer comes along.

Justin O. wrote:

iCollectPlayingCards wrote: It's in perfect condition.

*looks at damaged tuck and laughs*.

My thoughts exactly. I get that as a seller one is a bit biased towards the condition of the product, while as a buyer you‘re overly critical. But 3 of 4 visible corners dinged is a bad shape by my standards and regardless of a subjective pickiness not a perfect condition.

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Knowledgeable collectors know that virtually every tuck box has "damage". The OP's deck is no different than most Federal 52 boxes.

While I get the point that a real perfect 10/10 deck is hard to find, especially at the after market when it went throug some hands, I would call bs on that aswell. I don‘t own Federal52s, so I can’t talk about their shape, but looking through my collection the only decks that look like the one in the picture are decks that I handle often and that got dropped several times. No deck that I received from sellers was in a condition like this.

MagikFingerz wrote:Considering the signature is on the cellophane, I don't think you can realistically expect it to be pristine.

What is the point of a signed deck if the signature isn’t pristine? I would say that people would put signed editions in a case or at least a sleeve and therefore would especially expect the signature to be pristine.
I’m not buying into the hype of signed decks personally; but if I would, the condition of that signature would be a bigger prize dropper for me than the corners!

So I can‘t tell you what the market value is, but I can tell you that I would not pay a $100 for this deck.

Somehow I was thinking this was a Branded Black Reserve deck. I most likely was on my phone and didn't see the deck. Given it is a Branded Federal 52 deck signed by Jackson, I am not sure what it is worth, but not a huge amount in my opinion. The Key deck in the series is the Unbranded Black reserve, followed a bit behind is the Branded Black reserve note. This one is not even one of the limited decks. I am not sure I would pay $25 for it, but I already have one, and not really in the market for another As others have mentioned there are a few on eBay fishing for some big bucks, but I think it unlikely they will sell for what they are asking. You could start with $50, but be willing to come down a bit if you get a decent offer.

I don't even care about one crease or whatever as it doesn't affect the artwork, but even for me that's pushing up against what I would consider rough condition for a sealed deck. Ouch. Signature on cello is a silly idea anyway, slap that sucker directly on the tuck or don't bother imo.

Ok thanks everyone for your input and advice, I'll take it all on board

Harvonsgard wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Knowledgeable collectors know that virtually every tuck box has "damage". The OP's deck is no different than most Federal 52 boxes.

While I get the point that a real perfect 10/10 deck is hard to find, especially at the after market when it went throug some hands, I would call bs on that aswell. I don‘t own Federal52s, so I can’t talk about their shape, but looking through my collection the only decks that look like the one in the picture are decks that I handle often and that got dropped several times. No deck that I received from sellers was in a condition like this.

Call BS all you'd like. Just because you get decks first-hand from some creators in NM condition does not mean that the majority of decks sent through mail multiple times do not end up with tuck flaws.

The top-left is probably more "damaged" (while not actually damaged) than most, but this picture is up closer than you'd ever look at the tuck. Hypercritical BS going on here.

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Call BS all you'd like.

I think it’s great that you accept garbage in your collection but not all of us will.

I make a point of requesting additional packing material and extra attention be paid to how decks are packed so that I don’t end up with a bunch of damaged garbage that isn’t worth collecting.

Dented corners aren’t acceptable when I am paying after-market prices for an item listed as ‘new/mint/undamaged’.

Justin O. wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Call BS all you'd like.

I think it’s great that you accept garbage in your collection but not all of us will.

I make a point of requesting additional packing material and extra attention be paid to how decks are packed so that I don’t end up with a bunch of damaged garbage that isn’t worth collecting.

Dented corners aren’t acceptable when I am paying after-market prices for an item listed as ‘new/mint/undamaged’.

A very slightly dented tuck box is not "garbage". Especially if someone is going to be opening the deck anyways. Just because you have ridiculous expectations does not mean that they're standards. Unacceptable to you ≠ any standard. Your request for "extra" reinforces that you already know this.

It seems like you're as bad as the people who scoff at restoration. There are words not worth posting about.

Chris, do you ever not one-up people's post???

theCapraAegagrus wrote: A very slightly dented tuck box is not "garbage". Especially if someone is going to be opening the deck anyways. Just because you have ridiculous expectations does not mean that they're standards. Unacceptable to you ≠ any standard. Your request for "extra" reinforces that you already know this.

It seems like you're as bad as the people who scoff at restoration. There are words not worth posting about.

A slightly dented tuck may be acceptable to some, but this deck isn’t slightly damaged. And I don’t have ridiculous expectations if they have been proven to be reasonable to meet 90% of the time. And my expectation is exactly that, a standard. That’s what standards are. I have high ones apparently (if wanting to get undamaged product for my money is what you consider high standards, I don’t know why people want to pay resale prices for damaged products but go you I guess) and you clearly don’t have any in regards to the condition or value of your collection.

Even for decks I am going to open I still don’t want the tuck to be all messed up.

I don’t know what restoration has to do with any of this, where that statement came from, or what your last sentence even means, but I don’t have any problems with art restoration, which is what I assume you are talking about. But that last part feels a little disjointed so I’m not sure we are on the same page there.

Justin O. wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote: A very slightly dented tuck box is not "garbage". Especially if someone is going to be opening the deck anyways. Just because you have ridiculous expectations does not mean that they're standards. Unacceptable to you ≠ any standard. Your request for "extra" reinforces that you already know this.

It seems like you're as bad as the people who scoff at restoration. There are words not worth posting about.

A slightly dented tuck may be acceptable to some, but this deck isn’t slightly damaged. And I don’t have ridiculous expectations if they have been proven to be reasonable to meet 90% of the time. And my expectation is exactly that, a standard. That’s what standards are. I have high ones apparently (if wanting to get undamaged product for my money is what you consider high standards, I don’t know why people want to pay resale prices for damaged products but go you I guess) and you clearly don’t have any in regards to the condition or value of your collection.

Even for decks I am going to open I still don’t want the tuck to be all messed up.

I don’t know what restoration has to do with any of this, where that statement came from, or what your last sentence even means, but I don’t have any problems with art restoration, which is what I assume you are talking about. But that last part feels a little disjointed so I’m not sure we are on the same page there.

Your "standards" do not define the standards of manufacturing and logistics. Industry/logical standards are not at your mercy. You obviously don't work in a tolerance-based career, and you don't know what I do and do not personally collect. Most of this post is flat-out incorrect. Sorry not sorry.

The last sentiment is intentionally vague to avoid inciting conflict.

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Your "standards" do not define the standards of manufacturing and logistics. Industry/logical standards are not at your mercy. You obviously don't work in a tolerance-based career, and you don't know what I do and do not personally collect. Most of this post is flat-out incorrect. Sorry not sorry.

The last sentiment is intentionally vague to avoid inciting conflict.

But manufacturing and logistic standards don’t matter when the overwhelming majority of cards I receive, and have in my collection, do not have dented corners, or other damage, and do not show up damaged, proving that damage isn’t something you just have to deal with, expect, and understand as normal.

It’s fine if you do, or if you just don’t care, but if someone expects the value of something to be unaffected by it’s visible, and wholly preventable, damage they are ignorant or stupid. Likewise if they think that others should just accept damaged, visibly and preventably damaged, somethings as just ‘the standard’, because in the 10+ years and 600 or 700 or more decks I have been collecting I can say without a doubt it isn’t ‘the standard’.

And manufacturing and logistic standards don’t matter when all of the ample evidence shows that the selling, manufacturing, fulfillment and shipping party’s at play are more than capable of creating and delivering an undamaged product time and time and time again. But personal standards do matter to a collector. As evidenced by you seemingly not caring about the condition of your collection, and me valuing it’s condition highly. A standard that I have not found difficult to collect while having, and a standard, that hasn’t been difficult for sellers, private or commercial, to meet. Time and time and time again.

You seem to be arguing about the theory of how these things work from an analytical perspective, and drawing parallels to other comparable circumstances to create conclusions or hypothesis but I am saying that extensive evidence and experience through real-world practice, over a long period of time shows that damaged decks, including dented corners of varying amounts, aren’t the norm that people just have to expect, that in fact they are uncommon situations that people should not accept.

Unless I have just happened to get lucky.

Six or seven or more hundred times.

I support collectors with extremely high standards..... because I'm over here getting deals on "damaged" and open decks

Justin O. wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Your "standards" do not define the standards of manufacturing and logistics. Industry/logical standards are not at your mercy. You obviously don't work in a tolerance-based career, and you don't know what I do and do not personally collect. Most of this post is flat-out incorrect. Sorry not sorry.

The last sentiment is intentionally vague to avoid inciting conflict.

But manufacturing and logistic standards don’t matter when the overwhelming majority of cards I receive, and have in my collection, do not have dented corners, or other damage, and do not show up damaged, proving that damage isn’t something you just have to deal with, expect, and understand as normal.

It’s fine if you do, or if you just don’t care, but if someone expects the value of something to be unaffected by it’s visible, and wholly preventable, damage they are ignorant or stupid. Likewise if they think that others should just accept damaged, visibly and preventably damaged, somethings as just ‘the standard’, because in the 10+ years and 600 or 700 or more decks I have been collecting I can say without a doubt it isn’t ‘the standard’.

And manufacturing and logistic standards don’t matter when all of the ample evidence shows that the selling, manufacturing, fulfillment and shipping party’s at play are more than capable of creating and delivering an undamaged product time and time and time again. But personal standards do matter to a collector. As evidenced by you seemingly not caring about the condition of your collection, and me valuing it’s condition highly. A standard that I have not found difficult to collect while having, and a standard, that hasn’t been difficult for sellers, private or commercial, to meet. Time and time and time again.

You seem to be arguing about the theory of how these things work from an analytical perspective, and drawing parallels to other comparable circumstances to create conclusions or hypothesis but I am saying that extensive evidence and experience through real-world practice, over a long period of time shows that damaged decks, including dented corners of varying amounts, aren’t the norm that people just have to expect, that in fact they are uncommon situations that people should not accept.

Unless I have just happened to get lucky.

Six or seven or more hundred times.

Yes, they do. You're hyper-criticizing an image that's closer than you'd normally look at any deck. And guess what? That "damage" is easily press-able in-cello. Can't even tell you how many times a tiny dent (yes, these are tiny) has been permanently fixed with a tiny amount of work. You would never be able to tell it was ever "dented". It's nitpicking. It's not irreversible "damage". They're tiny dings that come with most decks and you probably don't even realize it. It's alright. "That's why I'm here."

It's standard. Within tolerance. Just letting you know. YOUR personal standards matter to YOU. They don't predicate the standards of manufacturing and logistics. They couldn't care less about 'em.

I'm not arguing anything that isn't fact. No theories. Just how USPCC has WxL tolerances, tuck box assembly and logistics have their own tolerances. Just FYI.

Seller could easily fix this deck and you'd buy it. Or you could buy it and spend 1 minute making your so-wholly "perfect" (it won't be, though). Nitpicking, either way. It's not "damaged".

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Yes, they do. You're hyper-criticizing an image that's closer than you'd normally look at any deck. And guess what? That "damage" is easily press-able in-cello. Can't even tell you how many times a tiny dent (yes, these are tiny) has been permanently fixed with a tiny amount of work. You would never be able to tell it was ever "dented". It's nitpicking. It's not irreversible "damage". They're tiny dings that come with most decks and you probably don't even realize it. It's alright. "That's why I'm here."

It's standard. Within tolerance. Just letting you know. YOUR personal standards matter to YOU. They don't predicate the standards of manufacturing and logistics. They couldn't care less about 'em.

I'm not arguing anything that isn't fact. No theories. Just how USPCC has WxL tolerances, tuck box assembly and logistics have their own tolerances. Just FYI.

Seller could easily fix this deck and you'd buy it. Or you could buy it and spend 1 minute making your so-wholly "perfect" (it won't be, though). Nitpicking, either way. It's not "damaged".

I’m sorry but I am not going to buy something damaged just so I have to fix it. I am going through my collection right now and nothing, even this close up, looks like this, maybe a few decks I don’t give a shit about, but the majority does not. Again, it comes down to what is acceptable to you is not acceptable to me because USPCC consistently delivers decks in better condition than this. And I am not saying they don’t work within tolerances, but I suspect their goal is that everything comes out in the best condition possible, which it pretty clearly does from my perspective. You can keep arguing in broad manufacturing theory, but I will always trust first practical, real-world experience more. The only thing ‘you are here for’ is so that people can sell their damaged crap that more discerning collectors wouldn’t buy.

Back to pricing this deck...run away from here and price it however you want.

Justin O. wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote: Yes, they do. You're hyper-criticizing an image that's closer than you'd normally look at any deck. And guess what? That "damage" is easily press-able in-cello. Can't even tell you how many times a tiny dent (yes, these are tiny) has been permanently fixed with a tiny amount of work. You would never be able to tell it was ever "dented". It's nitpicking. It's not irreversible "damage". They're tiny dings that come with most decks and you probably don't even realize it. It's alright. "That's why I'm here."

It's standard. Within tolerance. Just letting you know. YOUR personal standards matter to YOU. They don't predicate the standards of manufacturing and logistics. They couldn't care less about 'em.

I'm not arguing anything that isn't fact. No theories. Just how USPCC has WxL tolerances, tuck box assembly and logistics have their own tolerances. Just FYI.

Seller could easily fix this deck and you'd buy it. Or you could buy it and spend 1 minute making your so-wholly "perfect" (it won't be, though). Nitpicking, either way. It's not "damaged".

I’m sorry but I am not going to buy something damaged just so I have to fix it. I am going through my collection right now and nothing, even this close up, looks like this, maybe a few decks I don’t give a shit about, but the majority does not. Again, it comes down to what is acceptable to you is not acceptable to me because USPCC consistently delivers decks in better condition than this. And I am not saying they don’t work within tolerances, but I suspect their goal is that everything comes out in the best condition possible, which it pretty clearly does from my perspective. You can keep arguing in broad manufacturing theory, but I will always trust first practical, real-world experience more. The only thing ‘you are here for’ is so that people can sell their damaged crap that more discerning collectors wouldn’t buy.

Completely wrong again.

You're highly impractical. "I won't purchase a product unless it's perfect as-is because I'm unwilling to invest a tiny amount of effort to make it so." Pretty sad IMO. It's just a tuck box. ALL of them are imperfect by way of assembly. I guess some people just want everything handed to them. Good thing I don't have to cry wolf about drek, since I can just turn it into gold myself.