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I will probably cancel my pledge its 2x sets ... let me know in 1 hour in case someone wants it

Saw an early bird Deluxe Luna Moon pledge drop just before the closing bell and it wasn't claimed haha, could have taken it but I only want the Helius, surprised nobody managed to swoop in considering the demand!

So thanks to my bank p***ing me around, failing to issue me a debit card after 2 weeks (replaced today at last) I ended up missing these. Would anyone be willing to sell me one of each of the 4 decks? I’m happy to pay the ~$100 mark of the KS. Anything beyond that - within reason - we can negotiate. PM me if this can happen.

Portcullis, I will have an extra set if you want one from me at cost plus shipping. Sorry, but shipping will likely be steep, but glad to set you up if you want. I can drop you a note when they come in. I got a set of 6 so I could get the uncut tuck case sheets, but don't really want 6 of each, so I will be glad to unload a set for you. I can part with another set if someone else wants one.

My cost is actually $57 for a set of all four decks inclusive of shipping to me. I will need to add whatever my shipping cost will be to you.

That would be most gratefully appreciated! Sure gimme a ping when they’re in.

Bradius,

I will gladly buy the second set from you if they are still available.

No problems Spectre, you got it. Okay, my extras are sold. I am keeping the others.

By the way, I just saw the post where you showed that beautiful cabinet your wife got you for your collection. As much as I liked the cabinet, I have to say I liked the decks you had in the cabinet more. That is an amazing collection of playing cards.

Looks like these are finally shipping out at some point eventually maybe. I only pledged for the original Luna deck and I'm a bit peeved that they decided to keep pushing the shipment of that deck back for no reason. Originally it was to be shipped the end of April, then they decided to hold off and ship the Luna with the Helius at the end of May, and now they're saying the Luna will ship weeks after the the Helius. What gives?

Also I don't appreciate the bate and switch of originally hinting at fulfillment being done by Gambler's Warehouse but then shipping from China.

I think one of the worst thing a KS can do is bait and switch after they got our money. People that have done that lose my trust and I won't back them again in the future. Now some people have switched up things after their KS campaign ended, but the changes were for the better at no extra cost to the backers.

I didn't back this campaign so I don't get any updates on the project or anything like that, but did Bocopo ever address the issue if their tuck being a knock off of the Bacardi Sapphire Gin packaging? Just curious as to what their response could've been after getting called out.

sinjin7 wrote: I didn't back this campaign so I don't get any updates on the project or anything like that, but did Bocopo ever address the issue if their tuck being a knock off of the Bacardi Sapphire Gin packaging? Just curious as to what their response could've been after getting called out.

The Luna decks seem like they are starting to ship as I got a tracking number via email yesterday. As for the knock-off of the Bacardi Sapphire Gin packaging, they completely ignored getting called out, like it never happened.

Is it just me, or does it seems a little disingenuous to call the packaging a rip-off when the distinction between the two products is so stark?? [Just thinking of the "average man in a rush" defence]. You're going to be able to differentiate between the purchase of a bottle of spirits and a deck of cards.

The contents of the package are obviously very different, but the packaging itself is almost identical. Luna Moon heavily marketing the uniqueness of their packaging, even claiming they came up with the design, when its pretty clear the packaging is a knock off of what Bacardi put out already. We're not suggesting a deck of cards is the same thing a a bottle of gin, or even if there was a violation of any intellectual property rights. It was disingenuous for Luna Moon to claim they invented an original design. Their silence speaks volumes when they never even bothered to defend themselves when they got called out on the packaging.

sinjin7 wrote:The contents of the package are obviously very different, but the packaging itself is almost identical. Luna Moon heavily marketing the uniqueness of their packaging, even claiming they came up with the design, when its pretty clear the packaging is a knock off of what Bacardi put out already. We're not suggesting a deck of cards is the same thing a a bottle of gin, or even if there was a violation of any intellectual property rights. It was disingenuous for Luna Moon to claim they invented an original design. Their silence speaks volumes when they never even bothered to defend themselves when they got called out on the packaging.

I read this as the rebuttal of a courtroom lawyer. The only thing it lacks is a "Your Honor" or "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury".

sinjin7 wrote:I think one of the worst thing a KS can do is bait and switch after they got our money. People that have done that lose my trust and I won't back them again in the future. Now some people have switched up things after their KS campaign ended, but the changes were for the better at no extra cost to the backers.

I didn't back this campaign so I don't get any updates on the project or anything like that, but did Bocopo ever address the issue if their tuck being a knock off of the Bacardi Sapphire Gin packaging? Just curious as to what their response could've been after getting called out.

They've pretty much dodged addressing any criticism so far which is pretty annoying to me. Several backers commented on the shipping bait and switch but the response consisted solely of "you'll get your tracking number soon, don't worry!"

sinjin7 wrote:The contents of the package are obviously very different, but the packaging itself is almost identical. Luna Moon heavily marketing the uniqueness of their packaging, even claiming they came up with the design, when its pretty clear the packaging is a knock off of what Bacardi put out already. We're not suggesting a deck of cards is the same thing a a bottle of gin, or even if there was a violation of any intellectual property rights. It was disingenuous for Luna Moon to claim they invented an original design. Their silence speaks volumes when they never even bothered to defend themselves when they got called out on the packaging.

It's very possible that they created the design unbeknownst to Bacardi's box. I've "come up with" guitar riffs and melodies that I thought were unique, only to discover in time that someone has already recorded something too similar (or exact). The geometry of the design isn't so outlandish that only a single human being could fathom and assemble the box.

I don't know if I'd be personally ashamed, per se, but I wouldn't really want to address criticism or claim that I borrowed or stole someone's idea when I did in fact create it myself. There's really no way of proving either way. Only the creator knows the truth.

May it please the Court, your Honor, I would like to address the ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

TwoPiece wrote:It's very possible that they created the design unbeknownst to Bacardi's box.

I would say it's a stretch so say its very possible. I'd go with somewhat possible. Luna's design has a cap for the top because, well, its a tuck case for cards after all. The bottom hinges are articulated differently between the two boxes as well. I personally prefer Bacardi's version because you can have the box displayed all fanned out as it sits on a flat surface. Luna Moon's design doesn't allow that. The only way to see the Luna deck tuck box open and fanned out is if you're holding it up in your hands, or if you put the tuck on a little stand to give enough clearance beneath it to allow the box to fan open. But other than that, both conceptually and functionally, they're pretty damn close. Even the number of "wings" on each side of the box is identical.

TwoPiece wrote:I don't know if I'd be personally ashamed, per se, but I wouldn't really want to address criticism or claim that I borrowed or stole someone's idea when I did in fact create it myself. There's really no way of proving either way. Only the creator knows the truth.

My experience in dealing with both "innocent" and "guilty" clients is that the innocent client's are very motivated in defending themselves and getting the truth out there. Of course, you have some guilty ones who like to beat their chest and profess innocence regardless. But when faced with damning evidence, the guilty ones are much more likely to stay quiet than the innocent ones.

As you say, at the end of the day only the creator knows the real truth. Whether it was original inspiration or a "borrowed" design, the Luna Moon did create something quite attractive and novel for a playing card tuck box. Let's hope they can execute this tuck as beautifully as their renders look. The good news is Bacardi already showed us it can be done, right?

TwoPiece wrote: It's very possible that they created the design unbeknownst to Bacardi's box.

This (Bacardi's) is one of the best creative packaging designs which has won awards and has been mentioned at a number of places. If you search for "innovative box designs" on Google, this comes on the first page and as a top result.

But yes, only the creator knows the truth.

sinjin7 wrote:May it please the Court, your Honor, I would like to address the ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

TwoPiece wrote:It's very possible that they created the design unbeknownst to Bacardi's box.

I would say it's a stretch so say its very possible. I'd go with somewhat possible. Luna's design has a cap for the top because, well, its a tuck case for cards after all. The bottom hinges are articulated differently between the two boxes as well. I personally prefer Bacardi's version because you can have the box displayed all fanned out as it sits on a flat surface. Luna Moon's design doesn't allow that. The only way to see the Luna deck tuck box open and fanned out is if you're holding it up in your hands, or if you put the tuck on a little stand to give enough clearance beneath it to allow the box to fan open. But other than that, both conceptually and functionally, they're pretty damn close. Even the number of "wings" on each side of the box is identical.

TwoPiece wrote:I don't know if I'd be personally ashamed, per se, but I wouldn't really want to address criticism or claim that I borrowed or stole someone's idea when I did in fact create it myself. There's really no way of proving either way. Only the creator knows the truth.

My experience in dealing with both "innocent" and "guilty" clients is that the innocent client's are very motivated in defending themselves and getting the truth out there. Of course, you have some guilty ones who like to beat their chest and profess innocence regardless. But when faced with damning evidence, the guilty ones are much more likely to stay quiet than the innocent ones.

As you say, at the end of the day only the creator knows the real truth. Whether it was original inspiration or a "borrowed" design, the Luna Moon did create something quite attractive and novel for a playing card tuck box. Let's hope they can execute this tuck as beautifully as their renders look. The good news is Bacardi already showed us it can be done, right?

I agree, that "very possible" was a poor choice of words on my behalf. I meant it in a manner that it's just very realistic to think that the creator could have designed the packaging himself.

As far as defending your innocence, well, in a court of law you're only arguing to 1 forum and system of official record. On the internet, you're looking at seemingly countless locations that you may have to clarify or "defend" yourself. That's just too much time that, I personally, would have no interest in pursuing. If your claim is valid, then the only place that it matters in on your campaign page.

And, yes, it good news that Bacardi has shown us these boxes can in fact be done (and work).

So looks like the Luna Moon decks have supposedly shipped which would be nice if the tracking numbers actually worked. It's been over a week since they were sent out and many people(myself included) have been unable to track anything. Here's hoping I actually get my deck at some point...

Me too. I got a brick of each of Luna Moon and Helius Sun with signed uncut tucks, which ought to be cool.

Same here. After 6 days the tracking number still don't work. This was the reply from the creator "Kevin Yu

June 26, 2018

Hello,
It's normal, pls don't worry. as there are so many orders need to be sent out, so it needs some time to update the shipping information, or updates slowly. please wait for several days then track it.

Thank you for your patience!

Bests"

Not sure how fast or slow China EMS updates, but hope it works soon.

Eric Lee wrote:Same here. After 6 days the tracking number still don't work. This was the reply from the creator "Kevin Yu

June 26, 2018

Hello,
It's normal, pls don't worry. as there are so many orders need to be sent out, so it needs some time to update the shipping information, or updates slowly. please wait for several days then track it.

Thank you for your patience!

Bests"

Not sure how fast or slow China EMS updates, but hope it works soon.

I have a feeling it's not going to work. I read other people saying their tracking never updated even after their cards were delivered. At this point I'm inclined to think we all got a bs number just to keep us quiet.

FWIW, I've had this happen on one or two other projects, where the tracking number never worked even after the decks had been delivered.

And, yet, when I checked on the package itself, there *was* a tracking number on it that matched the one I'd been e-mailed. Granted, other countries added other tracking numbers in transit, but yeah...

Kevin has successfully fulfilled a project before, and I think it might be premature at this stage to suspect he's a fly-by-night. Your mileage may vary, of course, but we'll all know soon-ish.

(Not to be confused with Sunish, who is a different international project creator.)

CupcakeBaron wrote:

Eric Lee wrote:Same here. After 6 days the tracking number still don't work. This was the reply from the creator "Kevin Yu

June 26, 2018

Hello,
It's normal, pls don't worry. as there are so many orders need to be sent out, so it needs some time to update the shipping information, or updates slowly. please wait for several days then track it.

Thank you for your patience!

Bests"

Not sure how fast or slow China EMS updates, but hope it works soon.

I have a feeling it's not going to work. I read other people saying their tracking never updated even after their cards were delivered. At this point I'm inclined to think we all got a bs number just to keep us quiet.

Flick me the tracking number via PM, and I might be able to tell you what is going on with your package. I've been using a fulfillment company in China and have tried numerous shipping channels as suited to different countries, so I know how these logistics work, what kind of challenges come up & what to do if tracking doesn't work.

I am curious after reading the posts above mentioning backers haven't been able to track the package. It is possible if and only if a particular shipping channel is used and I want to confirm if it is the case by looking at the tracking number.

I never bother checking tracking numbers. Received my Helius Sun today however, very quick turnaround from funding to delivery I must say, a bit finicky but it does look impressive when open and I do like the cards so overall pretty happy.

I looked at the given 2 tracking numbers and made an inquiry with my contacts in the fulfillment company as well as China Post. Before moving on, I'd like to ask anyone reading this to take the below information with a pinch of salt & do not jump to any conclusion.

This is the response I got from China Post.

http://track-chinapost.com/startairmail.php shows BOTH NUMBER have No shipping record. This means your seller did not ship anything to you. You are scammed.

If you paid with paypal/aliexpress, open dispute against fraud.

Note that I never mentioned that I used Aliexpress or another portal to buy something, and the last statement has got their own assumptions.

My fulfillment partner's account manager said the following:

1. The tracking numbers are old and invalid for checking online.
2. The tracking numbers are new and haven't been processed. So there's no useful info.

Since there are backers who are receiving their decks, so this is my inference:

1. Decks are definitely dispatched by the creator.
2. As the tracking numbers are not working for anyone (I've not read anywhere that someone was able to track using the given numbers provided. The issue has affected backers across different countries which is strange), there are three possibilities:

a. Tracking numbers are incorrect - something has gone wrong somewhere and the project creator or his team got the whole lot of incorrect tracking numbers.

b. These packages are sent by the cheapest shipping channel in China Post which doesn't support tracking. There is one shipping channel or method available in China Post that usually costs between $1.5 - $2.5 (depending on the countries) but still gets the package delivered. This is a non-trackable method.

If this is the case then the tracking numbers that have been provided are fake. Because the decks are in transit, one day or the other they are going to reach you and if they arrive then you won't be looking back at those tracking numbers . As the backers paid extra for shipping, they are within their rights to expect fast & trackable shipment.



c. There is a serious logistical error in the system affecting the update on tracking information but I can't believe it. It just can't happen with everyone who is a backer on this project that they are unable to track after 2 or more weeks. If there is any such error then you are going to find a mention on China Post website or the fulfillment company ( if they used one) must be aware of such an issue by this time.

I think you should wait for a week or two, and if the package doesn't arrive then raise the issue with project creator.

Hope that helps.


-Sunish

Guru thanks for looking into this! It's hard to know what to believe at this point but I'm going to remain hopeful that my cards will come soonish. It's just unfortunate that so many of us are experiencing the same problem and such a ridiculous wait.

Just received my Helios decks this evening. That tuck box.. very cool, and nice smooth cards. Overall, a decent deck.

After alllll of my complaining the deck finally arrived. It's pretty cool but I can already tell that removing the cards form the box will be more trouble than it's worth rofl. The box is so stiff and there's too much friction for the parts to move smoothly as you try and open it up. Oh well, still a cool piece to have!





Also I solved some of the mystery being the shoddy tracking... The tracking number on my box doesn't match the tracking number I was sent. When I put in the number that is actually on my box it shows that the item was being tracked all along. I'm wondering if this type of mistake is the reason so many people are unable to track their box.

Thanks for the photos. That tuck is cool. I guess the other deck is the one you can use, so it is nice they sold them in pairs. I am shocked by the ebay prices, but I guess I should be used to it by now.