US reciprocal tariffs

[Eric Lee]

I wonder how badly it's going to hit the US producers, especially the small, single person producers ; considering the main printers are all in China and the China tariffs are going up to 54% total. Chris Hage already mentioned this in the Pied Piper KS update on April 3rd.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wo ... ts/4352925

Tariffs
We are closely monitoring the new tariffs imposed by the United States on Chinese imports. As you know, most of our partners are in China and manufacture the cards, stickers, deck seals, and metal products we produce. We were able to absorb the 10% tariffs imposed earlier this year. The new tariffs may or may not apply to playing cards and other products we import, but if they do, our cost will increase by 54% (in aggregate). I'll let you know if this eventually has any impact on the timing of our fulfillment. The promising thing is that our partners in China understand the dilemma and are willing to work with us to mitigate if they can. And who knows? Maybe the tariffs won’t even be in place by the time we’re ready to import. I'll keep you updated.

For those who are also into boardgames, this is going to hit that hobby even harder. John Kovalic, of Munchkin, Apples to Apples and Dork Tower fame is already predicting the death of the game industry on today's FB post.

34% tarriffs on Chinese products ON TOP OF his originsl 20%? Tarriffs on most of the rest of the world?
It was lovely having a games industry while it lasted…
But yhe , it was lovely having a lot of things. Alies. Stability. A recovering economy.
GREAT going, pro-business GOP.

[Bradius]

Given the current state, it will definitely not help...at all. Of course playing cards makes up virtually zero of the Chinese imports to the US.

[Eric Lee]

Forgot to add that with the sudden increase of 54% tariff, will we see even more non-fulfilment KS projects as the producer can't cover the extra cost?

[Evilgamer]

Honestly I think its probably the end of the collectible cards as we know them, unless either something changes or they find a loophole.

USPCC doesn't print foiled cards and only wants runs of 2,500 anyway, I don't know of any other company outside of china that can really do the work.

Even at $25 going to $50 in June for individual packages I don't see that being something most people are going to stomach.

And yes I feel for any producer who has cards that wont make it to the US by next week. Im sure KWP is having some discussions right now for sure.

[wonderfulfacts]

Honestly I think its probably the end of the collectible cards as we know them, unless either something changes or they find a loophole.
Even at $25 going to $50 in June for individual packages I don't see that being something most people are going to stomach.

It may be the end of a lot of industries as we know them and certainly many things are about to change real fast.
But those industries might simply find ways to prosper in new ways.

Most probably some creators will be able to find some loopholes or maybe the import and export of playing cards itself will find some sort of loopholes. Charmie/jinjade are shipping rewards to their backers labeled as gifts and maybe others will do something similar, declare even lower content values etc

Are those $25 going to $50 your average import charge estimate per package?

Although they represent somewhat of a minority, there are also european creators in the playing cards category that do not ship from china and those packages will not see such cost increases.

[Evilgamer]

Honestly I think its probably the end of the collectible cards as we know them, unless either something changes or they find a loophole.
Even at $25 going to $50 in June for individual packages I don't see that being something most people are going to stomach.

It may be the end of a lot of industries as we know them and certainly many things are about to change real fast.
But those industries might simply find ways to prosper in new ways.

Most probably some creators will be able to find some loopholes or maybe the import and export of playing cards itself will find some sort of loopholes. Charmie/jinjade are shipping rewards to their backers labeled as gifts and maybe others will do something similar, declare even lower content values etc

Are those $25 going to $50 your average import charge estimate per package?

Although they represent somewhat of a minority, there are also european creators in the playing cards category that do not ship from china and those packages will not see such cost increases.

Straight off the White House site

Imported goods sent through means other than the international postal network that are valued at or under $800 and that would otherwise qualify for the de minimis exemption will be subject to all applicable duties, which shall be paid in accordance with applicable entry and payment procedures.

All relevant postal items containing goods that are sent through the international postal network that are valued at or under $800 and that would otherwise qualify for the de minimis exemption are subject to a duty rate of either 30% of their value or $25 per item (increasing to $50 per item after June 1, 2025). This is in lieu of any other duties, including those imposed by prior Orders.

its not entirely clear if the $25/$50 is a floor or a ceiling. And keep in mind the new 34% china tariff is said to be on TOP of the existing 20% or so.. That affects a lot more than just cards, It would make a lot of things unaffordable (which is the goal obviously).

[radix]

Honestly I think its probably the end of the collectible cards as we know them, unless either something changes or they find a loophole.

USPCC doesn't print foiled cards and only wants runs of 2,500 anyway, I don't know of any other company outside of china that can really do the work.

Even at $25 going to $50 in June for individual packages I don't see that being something most people are going to stomach.

And yes I feel for any producer who has cards that wont make it to the US by next week. Im sure KWP is having some discussions right now for sure.

My Eccentrics Playing Cards project went to WJPC in China in January (pre-Trump). By the time they shipped the decks back we had to cover a 20% tariff, a big hit to the profit margin. A 54% tariff would have made the profit about zero.

I don't know if it's the end of the hobby, but it will definitely take out smaller US designers and producers. There just aren't any top-quality card printing companies in the US that handle low order quantities. (Yes, there are digital printing options like Shuffled Ink, USPCC and others, but the quality isn't as good as the offset presses).

I can see a loophole, and potential opportunity, for distributors or fulfillment companies in other countries though. For example, a US designer could get cards printed in China, sent to a fulfillment company in a country with lower tariffs, and then shipped to customers from there. (Anyone in Australia want to take this on? ) But that's just one more unnecessary complication.

[JazzBaloo]

I assume that companies will continue to circumvent tarriffs through multiple pathways although with heavier scrutiny that may be problematic. I think we're far from the dust settling and don't have a sense of urgency yet but I am also not a business owner who may be impacted by it in the short term. As a customer I am not in a panic if the outcome is a stronger American economy with more purchasing power. Time will tell. Are these numbers accurate?

[kevork]

I am not in a panic if the outcome is a stronger American economy with more purchasing power.

If we're talking about implementation of blanket tarrifs, I see no possibility of having more purchasing power. China, South Korea, and Japan are uniting against the US. You have EU and Greenland gravitating further away from the US. The administration is isolating us from the world in a negative way.

I hear multiple people saying there's ways to circumvent the tarrifs. You can label a package whatever you want but if it's coming in from a tarrifed country, it's false hope to assume the costs would be avoided.

Ask any goods importer who takes the burden of the costs for tarrifs. It's always the end consumer.

There's many ways that tarrifs are helpful when it is to promote a domestic sector. Blanket tarrifs are nothing but stupid and unnecessary. I'm incredibly frustrated as I write this but don't want to share more. If it means I'm going to have to buy less, then so be it. I won't be happy about it.

This government, on both sides of the aisle, continues to shoot itself in the foot and is beholden to corporate and oligarch interests. The people losing out are you and I and 99% of the people we all know.

[JazzBaloo]

I am not in a panic if the outcome is a stronger American economy with more purchasing power.

If we're talking about implementation of blanket tarrifs, I see no possibility of having more purchasing power. China, South Korea, and Japan are uniting against the US. You have EU and Greenland gravitating further away from the US. The administration is isolating us from the world in a negative way.

I hear multiple people saying there's ways to circumvent the tarrifs. You can label a package whatever you want but if it's coming in from a tarrifed country, it's false hope to assume the costs would be avoided.

Ask any goods importer who takes the burden of the costs for tarrifs. It's always the end consumer.

There's many ways that tarrifs are helpful when it is to promote a domestic sector. Blanket tarrifs are nothing but stupid and unnecessary. I'm incredibly frustrated as I write this but don't want to share more. If it means I'm going to have to buy less, then so be it. I won't be happy about it.

This government, on both sides of the aisle, continues to shoot itself in the foot and is beholden to corporate and oligarch interests. The people losing out are you and I and 99% of the people we all know.

I haven't seen the losing out yet. A stronger dollar equals more purchasing power. If you have some additional information to share that I or others aren't privy to then please disclose it. Anything helps. As for getting around tarrifs, manufacturing or assembly in the U.S or other countries. Fulfillment through countries with lesser tarrifs?

[GandalfPC]

If a product is mostly made in China but gets minor assembly in Vietnam just to avoid tariffs, that can trigger anti-circumvention laws. The place that mostly made it will be the decider for tariff amount.

Also one might argue, if one were for said tariffs, that attempting to circumvent them will only hinder or delay the desired result of the tariffs

[JazzBaloo]

Are you assuming I am pro tarrifs? I am neutral and can only speak to my own situation and limited knowledge with any regards to tarrifs. You can be anti tax evasion and still support fraudulent gift packages as an example for circumventing law. I haven't yet seen significant price changes. Prices have been in the long run steadily going up. Producers will change strategies accordingly whatever the outcome proves to be in due time. If things work out for the better then I guess I will be pro whatever the administration is doing.

[bdawg923]

I haven't seen the losing out yet.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ock-market

Tariffs are a tax on the American people. If you don't think we're losing out then there's nothing anyone can say to convince you and you're probably in a cult.

[GandalfPC]

It is fine to think that it will all be worth it or all be a fiasco - that at least is still a freedom we all enjoy.

Let’s try to not cross that line so deep into political debate that my delete finger needs to get busy again. its still sore from last time.

[JazzBaloo]

It is fine to think that it will all be worth it or all be a fiasco - that at least is still a freedom we all enjoy.

Let’s try to not cross that line so deep into political debate that my delete finger needs to get busy again. its still sore from last time.

I would add a third category of being unsure with a relaxed disposition. The news cycle can change drastically in hrs/days. I have not been affected in any meaningful way by tarrifs so far but that could change. Many things could change. I would argue that the cult comment is already crossing a line but people have varying thresholds of acceptability.

[GandalfPC]

Indeed - the cult comment was already over the line

[joeblow]

Back to the card business. If the intention is to bring manufacturing back to the US, who are the printers who can scale up or get back into cards? Is USPCC going to do smaller runs? Maybe if they can raise prices. With tariffs on their foreign competitors, they could do so. My only conclusion so far is that there will be fewer projects and higher prices.

[Honeybee]

Maybe your president doesn't think you should want products that you cannot get in America. Custom cards could be compared to Custom Cars - they do not want you buying luxury items from eg Europe but rather they want you to choose what America has to offer

[Eric Lee]

As it is, it's too soon to say just how bad this is going to hit the world. Just have to wait and see if any KS producers give up and go silent with the extra $ they will have to pay to cover the tax.

This was shared by John Kovalic (Munchkin, Apples to Apples) on his FB page. Interesting times ahead.

Steve Jackson Games CEO Meredith Placko lays out the tariff crisis in our industry perfectly. Many companies and stores and possibly even distributors now face the very real threat of having to go close their doors. This is absolutely devastating. Anyone trying to tell you a tariff is not - in essence - a tax probably also has a bridge they want to sell you (though the bridge now costs 54% more, due to steel tariffs).
This is DOUBLY painful for me to watch, as my degree was in Economics, and this is basic 101-level stuff.
(Cartoon by the brilliant Canadian cartoonist Bruce MacKinnon.)
---------------------------------

On April 5th, a 54% tariff goes into effect on a wide range of goods imported from China. For those of us who create boardgames, this is not just a policy change. It's a seismic shift.
At Steve Jackson Games, we are actively assessing what this means for our products, our pricing, and our future plans. We do know that we can't absorb this kind of cost increase without raising prices. We've done our best over the past few years to shield players and retailers from the full brunt of rising freight costs and other increases, but this new tax changes the equation entirely.
Here are the numbers: A product we might have manufactured in China for $3.00 last year could now cost $4.62 before we even ship it across the ocean. Add freight, warehousing, fulfillment, and distribution margins, and that once-$25 game quickly becomes a $40 product. That's not a luxury upcharge; it's survival math.
Some people ask, "Why not manufacture in the U.S.?" I wish we could. But the infrastructure to support full-scale boardgame production – specialty dice making, die-cutting, custom plastic and wood components – doesn't meaningfully exist here yet. I've gotten quotes. I've talked to factories. Even when the willingness is there, the equipment, labor, and timelines simply aren't.
We aren't the only company facing this challenge. The entire board game industry is having very difficult conversations right now. For some, this might mean simplifying products or delaying launches. For others, it might mean walking away from titles that are no longer economically viable. And, for what I fear will be too many, it means closing down entirely.
Tariffs, when part of a long-term strategy to bolster domestic manufacturing, can be an effective tool. But that only works when there's a plan to build up the industries needed to take over production. There is no national plan in place to support manufacturing for the types of products we make. This isn't about steel and semiconductors. This is about paper goods, chipboard, wood tokens, plastic trays, and color-matched ink. These new tariffs are imposing huge costs without providing alternatives, and it's going to cost American consumers more at every level of the supply chain.
We want to be transparent with our community. This is real: Prices are going up. We're still determining how much and where.
If you're frustrated, you're not alone. We are too. And if you want to help, write to your elected officials. Ask them how these new policies help American creators and small businesses. Because right now, it feels like they don't.
We'll keep making games. But we'll be honest when the road gets harder, because we know you care about where your games come from – and about the people who make them.
-- Meredith Placko

[ShuffleUpandDeal]

Companies need to circumvent the US by shipping from China to Europe or Canada and then fulfilling from there. I assume that would be way better than importing the whole thing to the US and then fulfilling from there. Or go through Australia or something.

[kevork]

I haven't seen the losing out yet. A stronger dollar equals more purchasing power. If you have some additional information to share that I or others aren't privy to then please disclose it. Anything helps. As for getting around tarrifs, manufacturing or assembly in the U.S or other countries. Fulfillment through countries with lesser tarrifs?

I'm actually really curious how you are tying the tariff conversation to a stronger dollar. These decisions are impacting international and global relations with other countries, leading to a decreased confidence in the US. What will that do to the USD being the global reserve currency? Doesn't look good. The US stock market dropped 6%, equivalent to about $3.1 trillion today. The stock market isn't a great measure of day-to-day consumer wealth as most stockholders are wealthier, but it's a great indicator of market confidence looking towards the future. We're already seeing layoffs in many sectors, increasing unemployment rate. Who benefits the most from recessions? The wealthiest of folk who come in and buy en masse to hoard more wealth (examples include 2008 and 2020 recessions). Some speculate this is the intention. If there was a desire to stimulate domestic growth, there has been no investment in the industrial sector here in the US to confirm it.

Here's an AI write-up of the Smoot-Hawley tariffs that were implemented and why they were a problem. History repeats itself.

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff was a significant piece of legislation passed by the U.S. Congress in 1930, during the Great Depression. Named after its sponsors, Senator Reed Smoot and Representative Willis C. Hawley, the tariff aimed to protect American industries by raising import duties (taxes) on thousands of foreign goods. The idea was that by making foreign goods more expensive, American consumers would be encouraged to buy domestic products, thus supporting U.S. businesses and helping the economy recover from the ongoing depression.

However, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff turned out to be highly problematic for several reasons:

1. Retaliation from Other Countries
- One of the biggest problems with the tariff was that it triggered retaliatory measures from other countries. Many foreign nations, particularly in Europe, imposed their own tariffs on American goods in response. This led to a sharp decline in international trade, as countries tried to protect their own industries by taxing imported goods.

2. Exacerbated the Great Depression
- The tariff worsened the economic situation in the U.S. and around the world. By discouraging international trade, it reduced the market for American products abroad, further hurting U.S. businesses and leading to job losses. As global trade slowed down, the depression deepened.

3. Global Trade Decline
- The Smoot-Hawley Tariff is often seen as one of the factors that contributed to the **collapse of global trade** during the 1930s. Global trade volumes dropped significantly, which undermined efforts to recover from the economic downturn. This "beggar-thy-neighbor" policy—where countries acted in their own interest but harmed others in the process—led to a vicious cycle of protectionism.

4. Impact on Consumers
- While the tariff was intended to protect American jobs, it also led to **higher prices for consumers**. As the cost of imported goods rose, consumers had fewer options and paid more for many products. This hurt the average American, who was already struggling due to the depression.

5. Long-term Damage to U.S. Reputation
- The Smoot-Hawley Tariff damaged the U.S.'s reputation internationally. Other countries viewed it as an aggressive move that worsened the global economic situation. In the long run, it strained diplomatic relations and hindered international cooperation.

Conclusion:
While the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was intended to protect American jobs and industries during the Great Depression, it ultimately worsened the global economic situation, increased unemployment, and deepened the depression. The tariff is often cited as a cautionary example of how protectionist policies can have unintended and disastrous consequences when global trade and international relations are taken into account.

Companies need to circumvent the US by shipping from China to Europe or Canada and then fulfilling from there. I assume that would be way better than importing the whole thing to the US and then fulfilling from there. Or go through Australia or something.

We already complain about international shipping prices. This will impact collecting significantly.

[JazzBaloo]

I haven't seen the losing out yet. A stronger dollar equals more purchasing power. If you have some additional information to share that I or others aren't privy to then please disclose it. Anything helps. As for getting around tarrifs, manufacturing or assembly in the U.S or other countries. Fulfillment through countries with lesser tarrifs?

I'm actually really curious how you are tying the tariff conversation to a stronger dollar.

Well since you are actually really curious, I'm talking about making a determination when the smoke clears. It can be a bumpy road between now and desired outcome. The wheels could fall off altogether... or possibly there could be something gained? Are you suggesting a recession is coming?

[TorresOVER]

I sincerely hope that such an outcome can be avoided, much like last time. As a fellow creator, we have already made plans to print with USPCC, mitigating tariff concerns. However, as a printer, I can only balance the needs of both parties—ourselves and our customers—by slightly increasing prices and accepting a reduced profit margin. We are also exploring more cost-effective shipping options to the US.

[JazzBaloo]

I sincerely hope that such an outcome can be avoided, much like last time. As a fellow creator, we have already made plans to print with USPCC, mitigating tariff concerns. However, as a printer, I can only balance the needs of both parties—ourselves and our customers—by slightly increasing prices and accepting a reduced profit margin. We are also exploring more cost-effective shipping options to the US.

Your calm demeanor is refreshing. You're saying it's not yet time to crack open our skulls and feast on the goo? Good call. Someone claimed that Uspcc doesn't do foil. What are your thoughts on that?

[Evilgamer]

I sincerely hope that such an outcome can be avoided, much like last time. As a fellow creator, we have already made plans to print with USPCC, mitigating tariff concerns. However, as a printer, I can only balance the needs of both parties—ourselves and our customers—by slightly increasing prices and accepting a reduced profit margin. We are also exploring more cost-effective shipping options to the US.

Your calm demeanor is refreshing. You're saying it's not yet time to crack open our skulls and feast on the goo? Good call. Someone claimed that Uspcc doesn't do foil. What are your thoughts on that?

Pretty sure youre referring me, technically they can do some foil type with metaluxe but thats not quite the same thing. Pretty sure they can do some metallic ink which is...better than nothing I guess.

[JazzBaloo]

That sounds more accurate. I get your point though of uspcc not being capable of certain features and I think it will be a detriment to the hobby if the Chinese printers are priced out of the market.

[kevork]

Are you suggesting a recession is coming?

If these tarrifs continue to be implemented, if social safety nets continue to be eroded, if layoffs continue as they have been (even though it's anecdotal, my work saw layoffs for the first time in the five plus years I've been here), if global confidence in the US continues to decrease due to the unpredictability of foreign policy and trade agreements, then yes, we are setting up to head into a recession. Hopefully it stops there and we don't see it continue towards a depression. I'm not trying to be alarmist as I see my perspectives to be realistic, but hey some of us need to be optimistic to strike some balance haha

[Dplay]

Now I'm not American so I won't comment much on the internal political and economic rammifications. Everybody can make up his or her own mind. But I do want to point out that there is probably a plan behind all of it. If you look at what people like Scott Besset and Steven Miran have said and written in the past one reasonable assumption is that it's all a ploy to get other countries to accept other demands (mainly increasing their currency valuations in lockstep with the dollar - increasing its value comparatively - and paying for security guarantees) while hoping that some infustry returns to America. If these tariffs are only meant to act as leverage then it's definitely possible that they'll disappear in time or are at least severely weakened. Now who really knows if this is the actual plan or not and even if who know if it'll work out (and whether we outside the US should want it to) but at least it isn't the definite end for the hobby (especially not now - 2 days after the announcement).

[Cardians]

I would suggest many here get familiar with Bretton Woods III - The birth of a new monetary world order.

I’ve attached a great article from 2023.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bretton- ... io-auriemo

From 1944 to 1971: Bretton Woods I
From 1971 to 2022: Bretton Woods II
The Birth of Bretton Woods III - Deamericanization & Dedollarization; “my commodity, your problem”

Cheers,
KW

[bdawg923]

But I do want to point out that there is probably a plan behind all of it.

I think this is one of the biggest scams the guy in charge pulled on people. Convincing them he's some genius businessman who knows what he's doing, how he's some master negotiator who is playing 4D chess. All of this starts to make sense when you realize he is an idiot who *doesn't* know what he's doing and he thinks he's always right. He's a narcissist and an egomaniac who can't be told he's wrong. He's incapable of admitting he made a mistake. He's been telling people for years that other countries pay the tariffs he's putting on them. Like what? This is just at odds with reality. Either he doesn't understand how a tariff works (absolute idiot) or he's lying to everyone (also pretty bad). This is the dude who bankrupted 6 businesses, some of which were casinos. Do you know how absolutely stupid you have to be to bankrupt a casino? Casinos print money. There is no plan. If you think Scott Bessent is going to stop this, then I got bad news for you https://www.thedailybeast.com/msnbc-hos ... exit-door/ The only way these tariffs go away is if Congress reasserts their power and votes them down. Until then it's the new normal. Businesses will suffer. They will go out of business. I hope more producers stay in business and use USPCC to print cards, but it's just not feasible with the amount of minimum decks they require for an order. Most producers are using WJPC and Legends to print cards nowadays. Either they have to switch to USPCC soon or they'll have to raise their prices by like 50% to cover these new taxes.