Comics and Superhero movies

[Eric Lee]

Got to see BP 2 with the family recently. They liked it and I loved it. Best MCU movie of Phase 4. But then again, that's not really saying much is it?


Mild spoilers


The movie wove Chadwick's death very well into the movie and gave him a very fitting sendoff. From the start to the end , it was excellently done. The focus on the Ramonda , Shuri and the others dealing with his passing brought depth in a superhero movie that is seldom seen, except maybe in Logan.
Angela Bassett really got to shine in BP2 vs BP 1. She was magnificent in this. Letita was great as well, seeing her transformation and growth from the geeky little sister to dealing with her tragedies and finally taking up the responsibility of BP. and everything that comes with that role.

Danai and Lupita also gave good performances too in keeping with what they did in BP1. Winston was another one who shone; developing M'baku's character as stated earlier by EvilDuncan. Overall the Wakandan cast really grew and shone in BP2.

I was ok with Namor and the Atlanteans new origins. It fitted well overall in the MCU for those who didn't know about them from the comics. Tenoch managed to pull off Namor well and didn't just play up Namor's typical arrogant royal self, though he did a good job with that. He brought a different dimension to Namor, as much as he could do with a comic character like Namor. The politic part was very hamfisted, but then again, that is typical for a comic book movie.

Riri and Ironheart as mentioned earlier was basically a McGuffin that MCU used to quickly introduce and setup her up for a future appearance. But she was ok and did what she could with her limited time. My biggest beef was just how advanced is Wakanda that a new suit can be designed and produced without testing in less than 1 week? Same goes with the ship and the other tech! I know they are the most powerful and advanced nation in the world, but to pull ALL those things off in less than a week? Come on! (If I recall the deadline Namor gave correctly)

Ross and Val, also mentioned earlier, Val was shoehorned like Riri to setup her role in the Thunderbolts. Didn't have to be there and could have been anyone.

But I have to say I love the unexpected cameo with Shuri! That cameo scene gave an extra dimension to Shuri's character arc. Excellent touch by Ryan Coogler there.

Overall a fitting followup to BP. One of the best sequels for MCU. Civil War is still tops, but BP comes very close. It does what a great sequel should do. Show growth and development of the characters from the 1st movie. Solid performances by the Wakandan cast, supported well by Namor. I give it 8.8/10 for this. (BP was 9/10)

[EvilDuncan]

Man looking back I just really wish Riri or Val were not in this movie at all. Would really tighten up the story without them.

I agree with everything you said, but I hear this statement from a lot of people:

Best MCU movie of Phase 4. But then again, that's not really saying much is it?

and I don't get it. Has this phase really been that bad in terms of quality? Sure, we had some stinkers like Eternals (Objectively bad, but still enjoyable) and Thor 4 (Subjectively horrible unless you like that kind of humor in everything). Personally, even Black Widow was ok, with it's biggest crime that it didn't come out after Civil War. Phase 4 had some fantastic entries like Spider-Man and Shang-Chi (I'd even say these are top-tier MCU films). I even really liked Doctor Strange. Not looking at any of the shows, is this really that different from phase 1? There are lots of people who don't like Thor 1, Iron Man 2, or Hulk. Hell, even in phase 2 a lot of people don't like Iron Man 3, Thor 2, or Avengers 2. I'd say this phase is pretty average all things considered.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Other than No Way Home, Phase Bore has been littered with "average at best" to mind-numbingly annoying/boring. Yes, it's been that bad. I won't accept any excuses for it, either. Basically every production was changed within months of its release. Marvel forgot The 5 P's for this run.

The Incredible Hulk has awful VFX, but the other Phase One films are all concise stories.

Anecdotal breakdown:

Never met an Iron Man fan who disliked his first 2 movies. Casuals seems to dislike #2.
Never met a Hulk fan who disliked his movie. I don't like it, partly because of the awful VFX.
Never met a Thor fan who disliked his first movie.
Never met a Cap fan who disliked his first movie.
Does anyone actually dislike The Avengers other than, "because Joss Whedon"?

I haven't heard any complaints from Spider-Man fans other than, "multiverse", but they needed the multiverse for the nostalgia to make No Way Home work.
Black Widow fans are happy to finally get a movie, but the timing and effort lead to disappointment.
Can't say that I've met many Shang-Chi fans. I would say that it's no better or worse than Phase One, but the third act deserves heavy criticism.
I don't even think Kirby fans like the Eternals comics. Clearly, general audiences don't either. It's an objective failure if they ignore the narrative from this one.
Can't think of any Doctor Strange fans that were happy with the sequel. It's a Wanda-focused trek that depicts the Sorcerer Supreme and the title character as complete buffoons. I love some of the horror and imagery, but it's simply bad writing.
Can't think of any Thor fans that were happy with Love and Thunder. Oddly enough, one of my best friends loves it, and I cannot fathom how/why. He's not a comic book fan, though, and he doesn't care about character consistency. Seems like casuals are mixed at best on this one, too.
Black Panther feels like casuals love it, and BP fans are simply disappointed that there's no actual Black Panther in the movie. Based on what I know, it's probably also no better/worse than Phase One's offerings.

Can't ignore how bad the shows are, though. That plays a big part in this phase's criticisms. If the shows didn't exist, it's quite probable that more care would have been filtered through the movies they produced at the same time.

[Eric Lee]

and I don't get it. Has this phase really been that bad in terms of quality? Sure, we had some stinkers like Eternals (Objectively bad, but still enjoyable) and Thor 4 (Subjectively horrible unless you like that kind of humor in everything). Personally, even Black Widow was ok, with it's biggest crime that it didn't come out after Civil War. Phase 4 had some fantastic entries like Spider-Man and Shang-Chi (I'd even say these are top-tier MCU films). I even really liked Doctor Strange. Not looking at any of the shows, is this really that different from phase 1? There are lots of people who don't like Thor 1, Iron Man 2, or Hulk. Hell, even in phase 2 a lot of people don't like Iron Man 3, Thor 2, or Avengers 2. I'd say this phase is pretty average all things considered.

I believe it's also due to the fact that P4 was the 1st one which Marvel started including the TV series into their Phases. IMHO, that diluted the quality of the stories, with about 1/2 of the TV series that I would consider to be above average and fewer still to be really good.

So, basically like what Capra said; overall P4 had too many meh movies and TV shows in it. For the movies, I agree with you about Shang Chi and Spider-Man. That's about the 2 movies which were good.

[theCapraAegagrus]

The Wonder Woman 3 script co-written by Geoff Johns has been entirely scrapped. I love Johns' work in comic books, but his contributions on film have been generally awful. For example, he had full input on Justice League, but no input on ZSJL.

There are tons of other rumors going around that are totally unconfirmed, too. Don't sensationalize yourself with those too much. Gunn/Safran have yet to present their ideas to Zaslav, so anything else being rumored is purely speculation (and, based on other evidence, likely to be false).

[Eric Lee]

Yup, we'll have to see what Gunn does when he take over in May 2023. Is he already making some calls now like scrapping WW 3's script?

[theCapraAegagrus]

Yup, we'll have to see what Gunn does when he take over in May 2023. Is he already making some calls now like scrapping WW 3's script?

Gunn is already in charge as of November 1st. Yes, he's the one who scrapped the Johns/Jenkins WW3 script.

[Sir Toddalot]

I’m sad to find out the rumors of Henry Cavill being out as Superman are true. Sounds like there might be several other major cast changes for the DCEU. Any thoughts?

[MagikFingerz]

Pros and cons. I think it's generally a good thing that they're starting fresh. The news that Cavill is out would sting a lot less if they hadn't first announced he was coming back and given him the [SPOILER] cameo in Black Adam.

He was a very good Clark Kent, though. I'm sad they didn't do him justice (no pun intended).

[Adamthinks]

The DC movie universe has been a mess since Snyder took over and is in need of a complete reboot. It sucks that Cavill is out though as he's perfect for the role. It's too bad he didn't get a chance to do a good Superman movie while he was in the role. They could've done something great with him, but instead we got a Superman character mostly in name only.

[rousselle]

I likewise have been a fan of both Ben Affleck's Batman as well as Michael Keaton's Batman, and first Michael Keaton's participation was squashed after they'd announced a major upcoming project with him as the Caped Crusader, and now it's fairly certain Affleck is gone, too.

I'm all in favor of a new direction -- or fine tuning the previous direction, for that matter -- but I still really would have liked to see more of Cavill, Affleck, and Keaton even so.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Anyone who thinks that WBD has learned any lessons from the past decade is a complete fool. The DCEU did not need to be fully-rebooted. Gunn is dumber than I thought. The new DCU is destined to fail.

[Adamthinks]

Anyone who thinks that WBD has learned any lessons from the past decade is a complete fool. The DCEU did not need to be fully-rebooted. Gunn is dumber than I thought. The new DCU is destined to fail.

Damn, you certainly can be negative sometimes. Have a little hope man.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Anyone who thinks that WBD has learned any lessons from the past decade is a complete fool. The DCEU did not need to be fully-rebooted. Gunn is dumber than I thought. The new DCU is destined to fail.

Damn, you certainly can be negative sometimes. Have a little hope man.

Negativity and realism are 2 different things.

[Adamthinks]

Anyone who thinks that WBD has learned any lessons from the past decade is a complete fool. The DCEU did not need to be fully-rebooted. Gunn is dumber than I thought. The new DCU is destined to fail.

Damn, you certainly can be negative sometimes. Have a little hope man.

Negativity and realism are 2 different things.

Indeed they are. Many people online seem to think being negative IS being realistic. It usually isn't.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Indeed they are. Many people online seem to think being negative IS being realistic. It usually isn't.

"Usually isn't" according to what?

In this case, I was posting realistically. I dare say that no one else here is as 'plugged into' the CBM community more than myself. My finger is on the pulse. The patient has a weak heartbeat.

[theCapraAegagrus]

It's really too bad that The Flash looks so good.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Well, Quantumania was disappointing. I'm done seeing MCU flicks in-theater. It's not bad, it's just not worth the money. Jonathan Majors' performance as Kang is the only thing really 'different' and truly entertaining in it. MODOK is good in theory, terrible in the way they chose to execute their idea. I'm sick of the MCU being unwilling to let drama breathe for more than 2 seconds. Everything is a joke to that studio now, and I truly despise it.

[Harvonsgard]

Good to know. Was seriously considering going to the movies. Internet it'll be then.

[Eric Lee]

How bad was it? Thor:LT and Eternals bad? Or more Dr Strange 2/Black Widow disappointing?

TLT I was glad I didn't waste $ going to the cinema. Eternals I watched with my son, only because he wanted to see it. Would have preferred to wait for it to appear on Disney +

DS2 and BW, I would go myself to see it just for the visuals, but not bring my family. Unlike BP2 where it was worth the $ to bring the whole family.

Any other thoughts on Ant Man from others?

[theCapraAegagrus]

How bad was it? Thor:LT and Eternals bad? Or more Dr Strange 2/Black Widow disappointing?

More like Thor: The Dark World, because it's better than Phase Bore, minus No Way Home.

[Harvonsgard]

Just watched it and quite like it. Like Chris perfectly said it lacks seriousness but I don't really expect that from a Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man movie - or oppossed to die hard comic fans from any Marvel movie in general. What I like about Ant-Man is the chemistry of the cast, they work together pretty well imo. So if you ask me it's more in the Black Widow/Dr. Strange 2 category. Nothing I would put money on the table for (thanks internet in that regard) but enjoyable popcorn entertainment that has good visuals and good fight scenes imo. I didn't watch Thor: Love and Thunder yet - so no clue there - but it definitely is above Eternals (which btw. is still levels above the latest crap Avatar movie imnsho)

[EvilDuncan]

Watched it last night and I really enjoyed it. Had a few too many dumb jokes, but nothing like Thor 4 (ugh...). I enjoyed everyone's performance and the visuals were fantastic.

Script could have used more work, as it seemed like a somewhat standard MCU formula for what is supposedly a top-tier villain. Deus ex machina kind of comes out of nowhere and *SPOILERS*............the villain was defeated way too easily. I could have also done without MODOK.

Bottom line, it's certainly not a 48% rotten. Way better than Thor 4 and Eternals. Personally I think a lot of critics are totally detached from reality when it comes to movie reviews.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Quantumania is one of those movies that I think people will YouTube, "All Kang Scenes in Ant-Man" rather than re-watching the whole thing.

One must keep in mind that RT's score is simply a percentage of the binary "good"/"bad" selected by the reviewer. If I was a movie critic, this would get a "bad" from me, as I think good technical aspects are severely missing from Quantumania.

[Harvonsgard]

Since I rewatched Warcraft this morning; will there be other Warcraft movies?

[Eric Lee]

Was it actually that good that you think it'll warrant a sequel? From wikipedia, it's iffy right now.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I thought the Warcraft movie blew chunks? That's what everyone I know IRL said. Didn't know anyone liked it.

[Harvonsgard]

It's goofy popcorn entertainment so I wouldn't call it good in comparison to actual movies. But it's enjoyable to me; to the extent that I've watched it three times in total. I guess I like its dorkyness and the visuals. Plus I like that actor (dunno his name) that also plays Ragnar in Vikings. He's a bit manic/over the top; I like that, haha.

[theCapraAegagrus]

It's goofy popcorn entertainment so I wouldn't call it good in comparison to actual movies. But it's enjoyable to me; to the extent that I've watched it three times in total. I guess I like its dorkyness and the visuals. Plus I like that actor (dunno his name) that also plays Ragnar in Vikings. He's a bit manic/over the top; I like that, haha.

Gross, you're not allowed to like bad things. /s

[Eric Lee]

Got to watch Quantumania with my son on Monday since I was on leave and school holidays still on. Not bad. It's at Black Widow level for sure. Fun and entertaining enough that I don't feel bad spending money on it.

Kang was great as the main villian. So far so good for the buildup to the Avengers. Loki and AntMan shows that there are worse Kangs out there that what we saw. Here's hoping that that payoff is worth it and the Kangs are a serious big bad like Thanos. With so many Kangs revealed, I'm crossing my fingers that it doesn't become a deus ex machina that they all suddenly go away or get beaten rather simply.

EvilDuncan was right in that Kang seemed to be beaten too easily. He's supposed to be the great strategist but there was practically no reaction from him when seeing everything happen until he jumped in. At least show his arrogance in dismissing the revolt and focusing on getting out.

I do like that they developed Janet more in this film and go into her time in the Quantum era, but not make her out into this saviour. Characters were well balanced to me with not much wokeness. No Mary Sues/Gary Stus, but all equally flawed and each given their moment to shine. My friend did complain about Cassie's social justice warrior mindset, but it makes sense for her since she's still a teenager or early 20s. She saw her dad and Hope do great stuff, so it makes sense that she'll want to emulate that.

As mentioned earlier by Harvonsgard, it's a right tone for an AntMan flick, just about what I'll expect for GotG as well. Didn't go overboard like T:LT did with the humor.

A 7.5 for me.