Comics and Superhero movies

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't know, based on the last episode, these could very well play into the overarching MCU storyline moving forward.

Nah.

[Eric Lee]

I enjoyed Shang-Chi well enough, and my kids thought it was one of the better Marvel movies, but one issue I had with it was the pandering. Every prominent female character is shown to be far superior to any prominent male character: Shang-Chi, whose training montage is absolutely brutal, has to have his butt kicked by his sister, who magically trained herself with zero help at all. Shang-Chi's mother kicked his father's butt, and later, she is shown to have killed, like, 40 dudes in hand-to-hand combat. Another prominent female character is given one archery lesson and then out-performs the master who taught her. I mean, it's pandering overkill.

Didn't think about it when I watched it, but now that you've pointed it out it's really obvious in hindsight.

His sister magically training herself was a thing that bothered me, though. It almost invalidates Taskmaster as a character if anyone can just "watch what someone else does, and teach themselves to do it better", I think her line was (I realize TM does it way faster, but still).

So I finally got to watch both Shang Chi and Black Widow yesterday. For the TL;DR version. It's very good; the Black Panther for East Asians. But relies too heavily on familiar Chinese and Kung Fu movie tropes without having enough original material to make it really great like Hero and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Full review:
Shang Chi is IMHO was very good. It was amazing just how familiar it was for both me and my wife. One could almost think it was another Asian Kung-Fu movie that just so happened to have Marvel characters in it. Those who are East Asian and who grew up with HK kungfu movies will get all the familiar tropes and themes. In fact when watching it halfway, it reminded me so much of the '93 movie Tai Chi Master. (which also starred Michelle Yeoh) Turns out that was one of the movies which influenced this one. Which may explain why for us in the Far East or those who were exposed to lots of Chinese kungfu movies , really enjoyed it without needing any familiarity with the comics.

The scene with Katy's family and her college friend is something that resonates so well with the East Asian culture. Familial pressure to get a professional job, getting married, work hard to earn a good living, etc.

Interesting that some of you saw the female pandering for the sister and mother.

In the cage fight, I saw that Shang Chi could have beaten her but he held back as he didn't want to hurt his sister. While she really wanted to hurt him the way he hurt her when he left her. In her spite for her treatment, she built up her own empire to show up her father for neglecting her and focusing only on Shang Chi.

From the East Asian perspective, I saw the all-too-familiar trope of the neglected child forcing him/herself to strike out on their own and earn the parents' love and respect. Being the girl and neglected by the father, she did what many East Asians did/wish they could do; which is to show up the parents. That was something both I ,as the middle kid, and my wife as the oldest child could relate with Xialing. It was even worse for my wife and her sister, where due to family suffering financial loss, were told outright that they would have to fend for themselves after high school and everything left would be given to the youngest and only son.

As for the mother, that's where watching Tai Chi Master and being familiar with Chinese belief of balance and harmony really helps. This is where the symbol of the Yin and Yang comes into play. The feminine fluid side balances the masculine fiery side. Tai Chi is about deflecting and reflecting the force of the attacker back to him/her. So as hard as s/he strikes, that's the same force which will be reflected back on him/her.

In fact, when Wen Wu married her , he found his balance and gave up the rings, while the wife also did the same, giving up her powers by leaving the village. However when she died, that was when he went off balance and took up the rings again. But in the end, he was desperately seeking her to balance/complete him again, not realizing that the children should have been the balance he needed.

Also the Tai Chi martial art technique and trope can also be seen in the first Kung Fu Panda. That's how Po manages to defeat Tai Lung as well. So nothing really new there in terms of the mighty and all-powerful conquerer only being able to be beaten by the Tai Chi practioner.

As for Katy's shot, well, she did show an aptitude for archery. (My brother an I could hit the bullseye after a few hours of recreational archery practise and we were given a smaller target to hit after that.) So that could be possible, but what was unrealistic for me, was how was her arm not sore after so many hours of archery practise! Plus, at the end of the movie she was raving about it on just what lucky shot that was, to her friend. Even she knew and Shang Chi knew that she was lucky to hit to target. (but hey, the throat was a whole lot bigger target than the one Bard had to hit on Smaug in the Hobbit book! If Katy killed the demon with that tiny of a target, I would have found that too unbelievable as well)

So I suppose Shang Chi is for my wife what the rest of the Marvel movies are for me. She loved it and was sharing with her friends, saying she's willing to watch it again with them. This was also the 1st Marvel movie where she never asked me any questions about what's going on. Whereas for all the other Marvel movies, she and the kids will be asking me as I'm the Marvel geek.

I can now relate a little to how the Africans and African Americans may have felt when they saw Black Panther. As a Marvel origin movie, it's not at Black Panther level in terms of overall movie quality. Too many familiar tropes and themes to be able to compare with BP. But as I mentioned at the start, Shang Chi is strong enough to stand on it's own without having any Marvel connnection. Having Michelle Yeoh and Tony Leung is good enough for it to do well in my part of the world. So that for me makes it a really good movie.

[Eric Lee]

Here's my take on Black Widow.

It's a really good movie. But it helps to be familiar with the whole MCU timeline from Civil War to Endgame to really get the most out of it. I I was asked a few questions by my family throughout the movie because of that.

But it's strong enough to be a good movie even on its own. It really adds more depth the BW and rounds her off after how the script portrayed her in Avengers Ultron. But they manage to turn it around and add to the depth the bits and pieces mentioned in the MCU about MCU like just what happened in Budapest, what the Red Rooom did to her and explain a little more on why she wanted to sacrifice herself.

It's got a good balance of fun light moments mixed with darker parts. Red Guardian is so much fun in the movie that I wish there's more screentime for him. Really hope they bring him back for more MCU movies. There's enough character arc that he finally realizes he talks too much. Natasha and Yelena have a really good chemistry together that makes you believe that they consider each other sisters. Love how they made a simple vest even more poignant in Endgame. Favorite line " Such a poser".

It's definitely up there in the list of great MCU movies. It's good enough to rewatch again. (I can recall most of the main movie parts that I seldom feel movies are worth paying $ to rewatch. So it take a really good to great movie that I feel is worth rewatching in the cinema.)

[guru]

It's got a good balance of fun light moments mixed with darker parts. Red Guardian is so much fun in the movie that I wish there's more screentime for him. Really hope they bring him back for more MCU movies. There's enough character arc that he finally realizes he talks too much. Natasha and Yelena have a really good chemistry together that makes you believe that they consider each other sisters. Love how they made a simple vest even more poignant in Endgame. Favorite line " Such a poser".

Yes, he needs to be back in movies or in a series. I am putting my bets on an Avengers movie where he will return in very big lineup.

[theCapraAegagrus]

New The Batman trailer is middling.

Did not like The Flash teaser.

I liked the Black Adam teaser a lot.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Anyone else get their tickets for No Way Home? I got 'em for next Thursday and Friday.

[rousselle]

Planning to be there opening weekend with the kids, but still figuring out which day/time.

How booked was the seating? Were you able to get good seats? (all our local theaters have gone to assigned seating; I don't know if that's a thing in other parts of the country/world.)

[MagikFingerz]

Thursday here

[theCapraAegagrus]

Planning to be there opening weekend with the kids, but still figuring out which day/time.

How booked was the seating? Were you able to get good seats? (all our local theaters have gone to assigned seating; I don't know if that's a thing in other parts of the country/world.)

Since I wasn't aware that they were going on sale at 12:01 AM on Monday morning, I did not get first choice, but for both days I did get seats on the edges of the middle rows in EMAX (IMAX screens, Dolby sound).

[Eric Lee]

So from the lack of posts regarding Eternals, I take it either no one watched it or it really sucked for you all?

I didn't really think it was that bad. Then again, as a major comic geek growing up, I may have enjoyed it more than others. Also my expectations were already low after the slagging it got.

But as a good movie, it shouldn't need that to make it enjoyable by everyone. That's probably why Black Panther, Civil War and Shang Chi worked so well as it didn't need you to be a fanboy to appreciate the movie.

Still I liked it. An average popcorn flick with enough story and twists to make it fun .

[MagikFingerz]

I liked it too, guess I just forgot to post about it. Entertaining, with good characters and acting. Also lays the groundwork for some cool cosmic comic stories in the future.

[rousselle]

I was fine with The Eternals. It wasn't great, it wasn't terrible, and it definitely ranks above the first two Thor movies and Captain Marvel. My kids, however, savaged it. They found the plot holes unforgivable and the whole thing just a mess. And while I agree with the criticisms leveled at it by "The Critical Drinker" on YouTube, those problems didn't stop me from enjoying it.

That said, really looking forward to SpiderMan: No Way Home.

[guru]

No Way Home is a class act...9/10

I am sure most of you would have seen it already.

I slept while watching Eternals in the theatre. It was not good enough but is a one time watch is what I can say.

[rousselle]

Just got back from SpiderPerson: No Way Home.

Man, that title really hits hard when you get to it at the end of the movie.

Magic issues and plot holes aside, I really enjoyed the hell out of this flick. I'm with Sunish: my initial reaction is to give it a 9 or so out of 10, just for sheer enjoyment. It'll be interesting to see if that holds up on second viewing.

Oh, and the way Peter Parker acted at the very end... wow. Just an amazing character arc. And, what an amazing actor, to embody so much change. That final scene with him at the coffee shop is just a tour de force in showing, not telling, that our Peter Park done growed up.

[Eric Lee]

I was fine with The Eternals. It wasn't great, it wasn't terrible, and it definitely ranks above the first two Thor movies and Captain Marvel. My kids, however, savaged it. They found the plot holes unforgivable and the whole thing just a mess. And while I agree with the criticisms leveled at it by "The Critical Drinker" on YouTube, those problems didn't stop me from enjoying it.

THanks for referral to the Critical Drinker. Loved his take on the recent deconstruction of the recent reboots of beloved series. He really hit the nail on the head on why I didn't quite enjoy those movies. Their deconstruction of the original leads what was so wrong with those shows.

I also agreed with him on Eternals. Messy and Zhao wasn't quite ready to take on that movie. Not with the script the way it was. The only reason I didn't find Eternals so horrible was because I actually know their background . I feel Marvel should have used Neil Gaiman's Eternals mini-series as the base for the movie.

Gaiman had them all living as humans in their everyday live with their memories wiped. Slowly they learn who they are and what happened to them.

It would have allowed you to learn about each of them along with the movie and open the road to more Eternals. Furthermore it would have explained so well why they weren't around for the earlier MCU movies. But then it would have left very little room for the Celestials. Ah well....

[Eric Lee]

As for Spider-Man: NWH, it was such a fun blast of a movie. They brought in so many people but they managed to carry it out far better than Raimi's SM 3.

PP scenes at the 3rd act was just so fun . Loved to see PP interact with the others in that part. That's the best part of the movie for me. Left me wanting more of that. Electro's quip about the MM SM from Spiderverse was a cool easter egg.

9/10 for me as well. Besides the mentioned magic issues, gotta say I find myself agreeing with Screen Rant's take on that pivotal scene. (Warning: link leads to a major spoiler. Click only if you have watched it)

[theCapraAegagrus]

Spider-Man: No Way Home got a 4.7/5 from me. First viewing sucked with the theater more than half-full of teenagers who clapped and yelled at anything and everything. A girl literally screamed her lungs out at the 'biggest' character appearance (I hope she gets mental help). Second showing was pretty much perfect, though.

I watched The Eternals on Thursday. It's easily the worst MCU film that I have seen (I will not watch Black Widow). It gets a 1/10 for having less than 10 minutes of re-watchable entertainment. Another poor addition to Phase Bore.

Next up are The Batman, and Multiverse of Madness. I am somewhat pessimistic for both of them, but the teaser for the latter has me intrigued.

[Eric Lee]

Spider-Man: No Way Home got a 4.7/5 from me. First viewing sucked with the theater more than half-full of teenagers who clapped and yelled at anything and everything. A girl literally screamed her lungs out at the 'biggest' character appearance (I hope she gets mental help). Second showing was pretty much perfect, though.

I watched The Eternals on Thursday. It's easily the worst MCU film that I have seen (I will not watch Black Widow). It gets a 1/10 for having less than 10 minutes of re-watchable entertainment. Another poor addition to Phase Bore.

Next up are The Batman, and Multiverse of Madness. I am somewhat pessimistic for both of them, but the teaser for the latter has me intrigued.

Does SM: NWH get better with a 2nd viewing ?

[theCapraAegagrus]

Does SM: NWH get better with a 2nd viewing ?

I would say yes. There were some details that I wasn't happy with after Round 1, and the second look made me realize things differently. It's part of the reason that I love seeing movies at least twice in theaters. Very rarely, like The Last Jedi, those multiple viewings really suck lol.

[EvilDuncan]

I actually enjoyed Eternals, but would agree that it is not a good movie. I watched a review of Eternals by Cosmonaut Variety Hour (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TQtpk468uY) recently and found myself agreeing with almost every point. This is a really bad movie from a cinematic and filmmaking perspective, but I still enjoyed it.

Also, a criticism I often hear about MCU movies is that the serious moments are often jarringly broken up by comedy. Honestly, this has never bothered me before until this movie. There were so many moments like that in Eternals that I hated and that is really my biggest gripe with the movie (aside from the main villain having an under-developed motive).

[rousselle]

There are many bad movies that I enjoy. There are many good movies that I do not enjoy. I have to say, Eternals was not a good movie, but it was still somehow easier for me to watch than Captain Marvel, even if Captain Marvel was slightly better made.

Whereas, Spiderman: No Way Home was well made and fun to watch. Looking forward to seeing that again soon.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Also, a criticism I often hear about MCU movies is that the serious moments are often jarringly broken up by comedy. Honestly, this has never bothered me before until this movie. There were so many moments like that in Eternals that I hated and that is really my biggest gripe with the movie (aside from the main villain having an under-developed motive).

Yeah, that's been my primary criticism when re-watching the MCU. The first time that I was ever jarred by it is the Cheez-Whiz joke in Endgame. Cutting all of the drama with quips is one of the reasons that I love(d) Black Panther; He doesn't do that, which is unlike most of the other lead characters.

[Eric Lee]

Any thoughts about the new Dr Strange MoM trailer? Shows promise after the way they handled the Multiverse in SM: NWH.

"Things just got out of hand". I just hope that doesn't end up describing how DS:MoM turns out, what with MCU going all in with the multiverse.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Any thoughts about the new Dr Strange MoM trailer? Shows promise after the way they handled the Multiverse in SM: NWH.

"Things just got out of hand". I just hope that doesn't end up describing what DS:MoM turns out, what with MCU going all in with the multiverse.

All of Marvel's trailers look dramatic, but - with the exception of Infinity War - they never tend to keep that tension. The trailer looks fantastic, and I would love it to be more serious in tone based on the story's nature. I just can't keep letting myself down when it comes to tone, though.

[MagikFingerz]

This looks fantastic:

[Eric Lee]

Like how they're slowing playing out MK's multiple personality disorder. Disney + has been a great job with the MCU so far. Stretching out the TV series into 6-9 episodes really allow time to focus complexities of the various side characters face post Endgame .

So IMHO, putting MK on D+ rather than a 2 hr + movie will help give MK more time to realize his character as he's such a obscure and neglected Marvel hero. If MK was done as a movie, it would have ended up a mess like the Eternals.

Writing this, it makes me wish the MCU had used D+ and Gaiman's Eternals miniseries to introduce the Eternals rather cramming them into 1 big movie. D+ would have been a better platform than the movie.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Like how they're slowing playing out MK's multiple personality disorder. Disney + has been a great job with the MCU so far. Stretching out the TV series into 6-9 episodes really allow time to focus complexities of the various side characters face post Endgame .

So IMHO, putting MK on D+ rather than a 2 hr + movie will help give MK more time to realize his character as he's such a obscure and neglected Marvel hero. If MK was done as a movie, it would have ended up a mess like the Eternals.

I'm of the contrary. I think that all of the D+ shows so far have been too long and focused on the wrong aspect of the series'. They all peaked mid-season rather than me salivating for what comes next. They were all designed to be long post-credit scenes, yet Loki is the only one that had me excited for the future.

I do think that Moon Knight is a better fit for a serialized show. A movie would likely come off as a Batman ripoff.

[Eric Lee]

I'm of the contrary. I think that all of the D+ shows so far have been too long and focused on the wrong aspect of the series'. They all peaked mid-season rather than me salivating for what comes next. They were all designed to be long post-credit scenes, yet Loki is the only one that had me excited for the future.

Reflecting on this, I realize I started watching the D+ MCU while watching a new Korean Drama show with my wife. The typical Kdrama series is usually 1 season with around 16 episodes. If it's good,they may have a S2.

Many Kdrama seems to be sponsored by the Korean Tourism Board, what with the long scenic shots of the Korean city scape or landscape. (Fact: Winter Sonata was the one which launched Kdrama internationally and drove a tourism boom for Korea) Also the couples will stare at each other as the camera does a 360 shot and have multiple angles to show the intensity of the moment.

Squid Game at only 9 episodes is an anomaly. Which probably explained why it was so popular internationally.

So D+ MCU at an average of 6 episodes with typical US editing style makes it look so much faster paced compared to the average Kdrama!

I'm 2 more episodes away from finishing Peacemaker. It's over the top and doesn't take itself seriously.

I'm loving it so far after the seriousness of D+ MCU. I like Hawkeye in terms of fun, Loki in terms of overall developing the MCU and for comic geeks like us. (Haven't watched Falcon and WS yet)

Do you all agree that Gunn as the helmer of DCEU would have been a better choice than Snyder?

[theCapraAegagrus]

Do you all agree that Gunn as the helmer of DCEU would have been a better choice than Snyder?

Oh my god no.

Zack Snyder initially just wanted to direct a series of 5 movies for DC. WB then wanted to branch out and have a full cinematic universe, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with Snyder being an EP on projects that featured characters he directed, in an attempt to be consistent. The problem is that - beyond Snyder - they didn't have anyone else competent running the franchise. An equal problem is that WB doesn't know jack-s**t about DC, and interjected their "creativity" into movies, making them worse every step along the way. Snyder is a great director and a decent idea-man, but he's not fit to be the Kevin Feige of DC. Even though they brought in Jim Lee and Geoff Johns to be a sort of 'creative committee' to oversee the Justice League plans, WB put the onus of their success on Snyder, who simply wanted to be a director and collaborator.

To be fair to Gunn, I put him into the same category as Snyder, but I simply like Zack's approach to comic book movies exponentially more. I can only take so much of James Gunn, but I cannot get enough of the CBMs that Snyder has directed.

[Eric Lee]

I stand corrected. I probably simply didn't care to know enough of the DCEU after the miserable attempts WB in copying MCU. I did enjoy his 300 & Watchmen for sure. But he had too much expectations weighed on him unfairly when his style doesn't quite fit all of the DC characters.

I suppose DCEU not having a Kevin Feige or anyone who is strong/successful enough to minimize studio interference is the main problem for DCEU.

Marvel got it right with someone from the production side who is also a big fan. Let's see if they succeed with Walter Hamada.